I have decided I should not compete on price with low cost machine tool products. The hobbyist machine tool business is already awash with 2nd and 3rd rate machine tools. I read in forums where “saving” $20 on a machine tool is still of highest importance for some first time buyers. So be it. It helps many to get started. But I already know the attractiveness of low price is seldom rewarded with long term joy.
$2000 – $3000 on a high quality 6 inch to 8 inch lathe may sound silly, but that is what quality will cost. Even twice that amount is not unusual. Have you priced the old fashioned (but great) Myford lathe recently? I can’t even find a published price. (If you have to ask, you can’t afford it…) A high quality 11 inch Emco lathe sells for over $10,000.
In another perspective, I recently paid in the $2500 range for a first class cabinet woodworking saw. That kind of quality is clearly evident in its appearance and operation.
Am I saying this is where the newbie should go to get properly indoctrinated? Heck no! The small size low cost market IS the best place for getting started. And you know something, that machinery can build projects every bit as good and interesting as the large pricey machines.
I have studied other hobbies. There is one common thread that is clearly visible. The semi pros and the otherwise very good hobbyist in any other interest have invested in the best tools and equipment obtainable. Check out any of them.
Take a look at serious photography. Whoa! Talk about investment. My wife’s quilt making — she owns very nice sewing machines. Drag racers – Ha! Don’t even think about the money those bad boys and gals invest. Big game hunters – not the local boys on first day of dear season – more bang for the buck. You get the point, or is that 6 point?
So I think there can be a leap up out of the dreary bottom line hobbyist machine tool business. There are people who want quality or have decided they can afford to pay for quality. Some of them have the room to install the big professional machines and can run the power to operate them. But I think there is another large group who desire the smaller machines but just can’t find the information about the quality they want at whatever the price.
These high quality machine tools exist. But I can find very little written about who owns them or anything published showing how they are being used. The low cost mini-mill & lathe folks have done an excellent job of self promotion. Where are the Prazi, Emco and Wabeco owners? These folks are just more private and don’t make an issue about the tools they use.
One thing I have come to terms with is the metric/imperial issue. I believe I can use either one without corrupting my American soul. The USA is solidly metric in many ways. I believe some very good small machines are not imported to the US because of the imagined metric purchase barrier. Also for European tools, 220 volts is a standard. Travelers are aware of this potential issue. (Pun intended)
Except for Taig and Sherline, all major hobbyist and professional machines are now imported. We in the USA could have more variety if we learn to use and understand metric. If you can’t cope, a DRO or CNC conversion doesn’t care about format.
I am looking beyond just price. I may be reporting on and offering some new and reasonable options for the hobbyist machine shop.
Dan’l
Dan,
I don’t feel like your just talking to yourself. I enjoy your words of wisdom a lot.
Thanks,
Marv
Hello Marv,
Thanks for the kind words. There IS someone out there. 🙂
Dan’l
Dan,
Don’t think we’re not reading… I check in every so often just to see what’s going on. Your latest comments on tool quality are all valid, I find it interesting to go back and revisit your original postings on THMS specifically the Grizzly Twins. I must have read each of these two or three times when I was planning some equipment purchases. The low cost tools will always be an option for the beginner. We know all the benefits, low initial investment, I can always upgrade etc.the only shame is when expectations are higher than the tool can meet and a beginner is frustrated and quits. I think you addressed all of these issues in your early comments. “Going in with your eyes open” is the best advice. I waffled for years until a lathe finally found me, turns out I’ll be overhauling an old South Bend. I was close to a Lathemaster when the opportunity knocked and I have a soft spot for old machines with potential.
We all have to follow our own path.
Keep up the musings, I’m looking forward to another sawdust endevor, don’t let that powermatic sit idle for too long!
Keith
Hello Keith,
Yeah, I still wouldn’t do it any other way. The point is to get started the best way you can. I wrote about my reading an old boy “heavy iron” forum this morning over in TEDEX. It contained the typical import bashing we all read over and over. My point, which was also made by several of the commentors in the form, is “the buyers create the market.” The seller supplies what the market will buy.
We need the low cost imports to keep the hobby alive. Not everyone has the skills or equipment or money to rebuild a SB (if they can find one) when they first get started. But they still have to rebuild some part of most imports. I know your SB will serve you well when you have it back in shape. You sound very pleased and that is the only thing that matters.
My X3 and Lathemaster serve me quite well without the need for rebuild. The mini machines are OK for ther most part and now the all steel gears will make them even better (and stronger).
With my interest in starting the THMStore front, I am tring to establish a new, higher cost/quality market. I can’t and won’t compete where I got started with low cost imports. There are good suppliers doing that.
I don’t need to replace my machines, but I am looking for the “Powermatic” quality in small benchtop machines to offer in the store. I will be OK even if I only sell a few. The store is not my main income.
I have my eye on a Sakai type lathe (but bigger) that was one of my interest in my early writings. I have also become a Taig dealer. So new machines will start to appear.
I may be all wet but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
~Dan’l